It's what I was lead to believe I would find here. I thought this was a book club.

My copy still hasn't arrived. Probably because I opted for the cheap 13 cent one from some sketchy amazon reseller. You get what you paid for...

So, it's now 18 days since I ordered the book, and it still hasn't arrived...

Just got it today (Dec. 17). Let the reading begin!

Len, before your thoughts on Black Like Me, I would like to hear your thoughts on my beloved Captain Correlli.

I just got mine yesterday as well. Bradley and Juraj, are you guys good to go? Did this book somehow get banned in Europe along with seal products?

I'll probably finish up Black Like Me this week and will post my thoughts. Why don't we send Juraj an email because he's clearly not checking the site.

So I finished Black Like Me. Maur, Juraj, let us know when you're done so we can discuss.

I'll be done by the end of this weekend. Juraj and Bradley appear to be MIA--any updates?

Any objections to starting the discussion early next week?

Ok. So, I'm getting this rolling.

My general thoughts on the book:

I thought it was really interesting, a very novel and risky idea. It surprised me that he didn't change his identity (i.e. name, address, occupation, etc.). I understand the reasoning – to see how differently he is treated being the same person but with different skin colour – but if somebody happened to recognize him, it could have totally jeopardized his project. Nevertheless, I really liked the picture he painted of small southern towns and cities in Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, etc., and how dark and eerie they appeared to me. I felt that his project could have gone on longer, or that he could have filled the book with more of his experiences as a black man. Only about two thirds of the 200 pages are his experiment. The rest of it is kind of a debriefing, sociological analysis.

The following are some selected parts that interested me.

p. 16: "I realize I was having my first prolonged contact as a negro with other negroes. Its drama lay in its lack of drama, in its quietness..." I thought this was funny, because in his mind, he is a little paranoid, thinking that every person is going to figure him out, reveal his project. So, he had heightened anticipation for what turned out to be very anti-climactic.

p. 25: I like when Sterling explains to him that the simple things in life are going to be different, and he has to adapt. "You've got to plan ahead now...you can't just walk in anyplace and ask for a drink or use the rest room." It's intriguing that the all the little things, maybe more so than the bigger things, were going to be the real inconveniences and hardships. He touches on it again on p. 99: “Again, an important part of my daily life was spent searching for the basic things that all whites take for granted.” Just think of when you take a road trip somewhere and you want to stop to piss or eat. You may have to go hungry or hold your bladder for a while until you find somewhere that will let you use their facilities because of your skin colour. It is baffling to think that this was officially happening in the U.S. less than fifty years ago.

p. 40: An old man defends the negroes, saying: "Our own people have proven themselves in every field." This reminded me of what I said to a couple racist Afrikaaners in South Africa when they were trying to tell me that blacks haven't invented anything worthwhile. When I printed them a list of everything invented/created by blacks, they laughed, saying they weren't real inventions. I almost feel that arguing this point gives the racists credit to their argument.

p. 49: John is looking to cash traveler’s cheques, and he is viciously denied. I hate this, because racists can always hide behind the defense that you can’t prove he was denied because he was black. Again, it reminds me of South Africa. I was waiting in line at the grocery store, and this white woman turned around and yelled at the black guy behind her, saying: “Step back right now! Don’t get any closer!” The hate and bitterness in her tone was palpable. The question I asked myself was: would she have yelled like that if the man was white? I can’t prove it, but I’m pretty confident of my answer.

p. 50: He is more surprised/amused when he receives his first “hate stare” from a woman. “This was so exaggeratingly hateful I would have been amused if I had not been so surprised.” This reminded me of Dave Chappelle’s skit when he talks about times when something is so racist, you don’t even get mad. You’re just like: “God damn that is racist!”

p. 68: “I took out my notebook, lay across the bed on my stomach and attempted to write – anything to escape the death dance out there in the Mississippi night.” I just really like this line, and it spoke volumes of the picture he paints of Mississippi: And on p. 96: “When I crossed the line from Mississippi into Alabama, I felt as though I were leaving a cemetery.”

p. 101: This part is one of the most interesting for me, when he personalizes some of the whites apart from their racism. “The Southern whites I knew were kind and wise. If they allowed this, then surely it must be right.” And on p. 104, when he hitches a ride with that frighteningly racist white guy in Montgomery, and the guy says “you start stirring up these niggers and we sure as hell know how to take care of you.” John says:

“I forced myself to silence, forced myself to picture this man in his other roles. I saw him as he played with his grandchildren, as he stood up in church with open hymnal in hand, as he drank a cup of coffee in the morning before dressing and then shaved and talked with his wife pleasantly about nothing, as he visited with friends on the front porch Sunday afternoons. That was the man I had seen when I first got in the truck.”

And then talking about the man’s racist side, he says: “It was a side he would show no one but his victims, or those who connived with him…He showed me the lowest and I had to surmise the highest.” These two quotes are really interesting, because it’s true: these people might be decent people in every other facet of life, and it's hard to believe that such apparently "descent" people could hold such warped views. Again, I turn to my experience in South Africa (I feel like it’s a pretty good parallel, for obvious reasons). These two Afrikaaners that I befriended were great guys. They took me out, invited me to their family’s house for dinner; were generally great people. But, when it came to the race issue, I couldn’t believe the things they said, the things they thought. It was astounding. And I can guarantee that if I was black, and the EXACT same person, they would not have treated me the way that they did. I remember one of them saying: “My parents taught me to think like this, and I’ll teach my kids to think like this.” That truly is frightening, and demonstrates that you can formally eliminate segregation, but changing the “minds of men” is another thing entirely.

I just started this week and I'm about half way...so I'll finish soon. I wanna wait til I'm finished and have my own opinion to read opinions etc.

I am already daunted by a quick glance at Alex's post.

I'm laying my dedication to this book club on the line, balls out, no messing around.

It's scary to think that some things don't change or change very little or that the intolerance can be transfered from racism to homophobia. The other day on the Daily Show, Wyatt Cenac went to New Jersey to report on the gay marriage bill. The bill was rejected. At the end of the report, a black lady was talking about how it was great that after so much struggle for her people that she was able to have the right to reject this bill. "..we have the voice, and I'm so thankful today that the same sex issue was rejected." Obviously the point of the piece was to demonstrate the absolute paradox of the situation.

Going back to the book, I have a better sense of the leaps that have been made to rid the country of such intolerances. It's unfortunate that only a white man could have written this book and have any sort of impact and yet I am grateful that John Griffin did and that he continued to talk about the issue long after his experience was over. It would have been easy for him to do this report and forget about it, apart of course for his conscience which he obviously had.

I'm no sociologist, and while reading this book I understood the tendency of black people to be so passionately religious. If all I knew was hatred from other human beings and that the only peace of mind came from scriptures, I would definitely have a deep relationship with religion.

In a side note, I was told that John Griffin died due to the pills he took for the colour transformation causing skin cancer, but according to Wikipedia this is a rumor (although the source is not very credible).

I digress. Although the events that occured to John Griffin were horrific in terms of the inhumanity, I was semi-expecting something fatal to happen to him. I'm glad it didn't. Now, it dawns on me the incredible number of black americans that did die for no reason at all, other then the bigotry of white people. These people were in a situation, in a country, to no fault of their own, stripped of their self-respect at every turn. It just blows my mind!

It is obvious to me that racism is still present and that judgement is made on someone just by the colour of their skin, by the form of their eyes, by their accent and even by their name. I have to hope that even if racism and intolerance are still very strong in some parts of the world, some of us can look past prejudices and instill real values in future generations.

And I leave you with this quote by Martin Luther King, Jr: "An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity."

It's nice to see that our newest member "Dew" is contributing more than the book club's founding fathers. It's time to step up fellas. And Len, your three-sentences aren't going to cut it. And "Dew," I too saw that Daily Show episode. The irony in that woman's comment was absolutely priceless.

I don't think Orwell would aprove of your use of the word "penchant."

He would approve of Len referring to you as "rabid randy."

I thought this was a good, concise read. It's impressive how much Griffin packed into those 200 pages: the planning, the execution, and the debriefing. Anyone whose read the Corelli thread knows that I appreciate Griffin's simple and straightforward writing style. He treated this book not as a piece of art but as a practical way to show just how deep racism was.

This book made me think of LBJ and the things he did for civil rights. Keep in mind that LBJ was born in Texas in 1908--and, using this book as a reference, imagine the level of racism that surrounded him during his formative years. He could have forgotten about civil rights altogether and hid behind the Vietnam War (or "American War," as the Vietnamese call it), but he didn't.

I've thought about this point a lot. Although his black experiences are fascinating and never get old, they are not the main point of the book. The debriefing shows that Griffin genuinely cared--he wasn't some opportunist who went black face, wrote a book, made a ton of dough, and headed for zee hills. To me, the latter third of the book says "Yes, I went black face and became a celebrity of sorts, but look at what's still happening--we have a lot more work to do." Take pg.177, which is what Len was talking about above:

I agree--and that's why he wrote it: to make people aware of that absurd fact, in the hopes that they might wake up and start treating--and listening to--black people as equals.

I'm no fan of organized religion, but it must be applauded for treating blacks with much more decency than the rest of the country.

A fitting quote, given Martin Luther King day was yesterday (Jan. 18th), I believe.

Overall, I enjoyed this book. It is an interesting snapshot of the time leading up to the civil rights movement. I think I'll dig up Eddie Murphy's SNL skit when he goes whiteface and discovers how white people behave when black people aren't around.

I know!!! It was too good.

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and thanks for the welcomes--I'll try to keep up!

Alright... it's been quite the adventure to get and read this book here at the set of the Truman show (a.k.a. Switzerland), but I have finished it. I took the book with me to NZ over the holidays, only to have it taken by someone that was interested in reading it, and then I never got it back... Anyway...

I don't think there is much that I can add that hasn't been said above. I found it interesting just how much our views have changed over the years, but it also made me wonder whether they actually have. Can I honestly say that I don't have any kind of prejudices against any particular group in society that causes me to unconsciously act in a certain way? Probably not... So will there always be some group that takes the blame? Jews, Blacks, Gays, Gingers?

As Leo said, it's interesting to see just how overt racism seemed to be. I don't know how many of you have grandparents that often say something quite racist without seeing any need to feel ashamed of what they said, or the fact that they feel this way. So the whole thing made me think whether we are all in some way racist, sexist, or whatever, and only supressing these prejudices to, once again, be a part of the majority and not the minority. In other words, if I were in a position where racism is publicly acceptable, how would I feel.

These thoughts are somewhat interesting to answer in Switzerland, where they just had the Minarett-banning vote not too long ago, and where some of the people don't understand the fact that "the N-word" seems to be bad. Living in Canada for 16 years has really molded my views considerably in this regard. I often have a knee-jerk reaction when I hear "the N-word", and I have to say that the Minarett-ban vote really had a profound effect on me as well.

Even though call-to-prayers have been banned a few years ago, and there are only 4 Minaretts in all of Switzerland, 30% of the people in Zurich city that voted, voted in favour (50+% outside of the city in the Canton of Zurich). This means that every 3rd one of my colleagues could have voted for the ban. I realize after 3 years of living here that as a foreigner, you will NEVER be a fully integrated Swiss citizen until you undergo a transformation as profound as the guy in the book. You would not only have to speak the language flawlessly with no hint of an accent, but in my case, I would have to change my first and last name as well, and then move to a community where nobody knew about my previous history and make up lies about where I was born, etc... This is hard to accept as a Canadian citizen, but most people that I talk to agree (both Swiss and non-Swiss) that the truth is probably not too far from that.

Despite the fact that I understand about the "need to protect your culture" etc, I found the "cool kids table" approach of Switzerland a little concerning from the beginning. After the vote, I find it quite difficult to accept, and I really started thinking about moving out of this country. It's hard to accept because I know I will NEVER have a more comfortable life in terms of job security, disposable income, quality of food and everything else. But it has also shown me that I simply choose not to live in a culture that is, at least on the outside if not the inside, accepting of other cultures, "races", etc. etc.

Anyway, this book came at the right time into my life, and I am glad that I read it just shortly after I had to ask myself some soul-searching questions regarding this exact topic (as a potential ssuer and recipient of such sentiments).

Not sure how to really end this babbling since it's kind of all over the place... so I'll simiply end with the period at the end of this sentence.

Hey dudes...sorry about the late response.

I've been writing a paper lately which made me not want to sit down and critique a book, although I throughly enjoyed it.

Awesome choice Maur. I've basically been telling everyone about it, I'd almost say its a must read. There are discriminatory thoughts in everyone's minds to some extent, everywhere, but this really helped me to see what it was like and where the issue with race comes from (and why its a continuing major aspect of society in the US today).

And maybe only Alex can appreciate this, but I can only say it makes "The Game"'s inclusion of Lefteye and Aaliyah in the same context as Martin Luther King all the more ludicrous.

Yeah I have to comment on that too - the absolute death stares drove home what people had to deal with. And the having to hunt for little things like the washroom. Just unbelievable!

I also wanted to say this book confirms I like the journalistic approach to historical accounts. Rise and Fall of the Third Reich was written by a guy who was there, when historical events were occuring and it made everything seem more real.

Hmmm... Inside the Third Reich sounds interesting...

The thing that really grabbed me when reading this book is actually the epilogue. The accounts of the riots and the way things began to change really opened my eyes to something I had very little knowledge about. While reading Hedrix's biography I learned that there was a lot of "suspicious" activity around him just prior to his death, and apparently the FBI were watching him due to his support of the Black Panthers. I am not suggesting that this should be turned into a conspiracy theory, but having read that part in his biography made me think just how far-fetched the authors ideas are.

However, having read Griffin's account of what happened during the late 50's and 60's, I realize now that perhaps it was a lot crazier than I ever imagined or even allowed myself to consider. The same goes for Charles Manson and his belief in the coming of a "racial war" that needed a push to start it. Reading about that guy made me think "how in the world did he come up with an f'ed up theory like that". Once again, reading the epilogue made me realize that perhaps it was not such as far-fetchd as it may have seemed.

I guess what I am bablling about is the fact that I really had no clue about the "race" relations during 50's and 60's and just how bad or scarry the whole thing was, and this book let me really see that.